Oktagon velike trojke ili put do GOATa

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Ko je GOAT?

Rafael Nadal
48
37%
Roger Federer
36
27%
Novak Đoković
47
36%
 
Ukupno glasova: 131

lucky13
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Re: Oktagon velike trojke ili put do GOATa

Post Postao/la lucky13 » 16 avg 2021, 21:23

sta tu ima da se zna. cim si spomenuo vavu, potra i muzu zna se da se misli na meceve na slemu, OI i neki sem mecevi sa muzom. kao kada se pomene kirjos misli se na negativni h2h sa njim mada je lik potpuno nebitan u prici i ta 2 meca su bila u najgoroj godini u noletovoj karijeri.

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Felixians4
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Re: Oktagon velike trojke ili put do GOATa

Post Postao/la Felixians4 » 17 avg 2021, 12:17

lucky13 je napisao/la:
16 avg 2021, 21:23
sta tu ima da se zna. cim si spomenuo vavu, potra i muzu zna se da se misli na meceve na slemu, OI i neki sem mecevi sa muzom. kao kada se pomene kirjos misli se na negativni h2h sa njim mada je lik potpuno nebitan u prici i ta 2 meca su bila u najgoroj godini u noletovoj karijeri.
pa eto,ima. objasnio sam an što sam mislio KONKRETNO. ne treba se on dokazivati nikom,,on je vlasnik većine najznačajnijih rekorda, al bilo bi onako sjajno,čisto da i time zaključi karijeru. ti stalno napadno udaraš i po meni iako nema nit najmanjeg razloga.

što se mene tiče, draže bi mi bilo da je uzeo OI nego 4 Slama. Ionako je AO i RG jedva izvukao, a na OI je razvaljivao do te polovice drugog seta u SF. A sad da biram, radije bih da zadrži no.1 i tako se usamostali s year#1 nego da osvoji UO i uzme godišnji Grand Slam. Mada opet, u tom kontekstu bi zaostajao za Nadalom i premalo bi imao US opena u odnosu na W i AO,ali eto,to su samo neke moje želje kad bi se trebalo izabrati.

Opet,Novak bi mogao biti neopterećen na US Openu kolikogod to bilo nelogično,posebno ukoliko i Nadal otkaže ponovno. Ne bi valjalo da u prvom tjednu opet neslavno završi,zamrzio bi NYC.

Federeru sve minornije šanse da povrati rekorde i da prestigne J.Connorsa, to je odlično.

lucky13
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Re: Oktagon velike trojke ili put do GOATa

Post Postao/la lucky13 » 17 avg 2021, 21:54

OI ne mogu nikada imati vaznost slema a kamoli 4. mada su one naravno bile 5. po vaznosti turnir ove godine. inace bih svrstao u rang sa WTFom po nekom prestizu ili ostvarenju. ako nole osvoji USO trebao bi biti bas neki lud scenario pa da ne zavrsi godinu kao br1. to su 2 najveca preostala cilja za sezonu naravno. sa USO bi izbio na celo po broju slemova, kompletirao sezonski GS i bio bolji na 3 od 4 slema od najvjerovatnije buduceg najveceg konkurenta za GOATa (trenutno je to fed). i naravno vjerovatno zapecatio YE#1 cime bi i tu se osamostalio sa rekordnih 7 sampionskih sezona i napravio dodatni, u tom slucaju vec dosta znacajan, otklon od rafe i feda.

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Felixians4
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Re: Oktagon velike trojke ili put do GOATa

Post Postao/la Felixians4 » 18 avg 2021, 14:37

Slamova "može" skupiti svake godine 4, a Olimpijskih Igara NE. Posebno što je njemu to jako značajno. NIJE USPOREDIVO. Al ne moramo o tome.

Što misliš, ukoliko recimo Novak ne osvoji UO,a da je to uvjetovano "normalnim" porazom(nije ozljeda,diskvalifikacija ili čak da je dramatični poraz koji bi mu poljuljao psihu), da li bi giljao do kraja godine da zadrži broj 1 ili bi taj prioritet maknuo sa strane i gradio planove psotepeno nanovo? Ne moraš odgovoriti,dopuštam da ne želiš o tome razmišljati.

Nek mu Zverev pomogne ukoliko bude došlo do tih problema pa premosti Medvedeva koji ga dere na hardu. 2 1000 Finala ga sredio pa odmah nakon Pariza u grupi u Londonu

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Re: Oktagon velike trojke ili put do GOATa

Post Postao/la lucky13 » 18 avg 2021, 15:44

nadam se da ce ici na YE#1 u svakom slucaju. veoma znacajno dostignuce. bio bi usmljen na vrhu po sampionskim sezonama i imao cak 2 vise od fedala. vec je 2 puta propustao YE#1 u foto finisu zbog ne igranja i odmaranja na nekim turnirima. dok bi sa druge strane muza i rafa pocistili kraj godine. oba puta u 750p razlike (sa druge strtane je u svih 6 sezona gdje je bio br1 imao vise od 1500p prednosti). muza spasavao ML protiv milosa u SF WTFa i poslije je direktno finale sa noletom odlucivalo o br1 na kraju godine. znaci bukvalno u posljednjem mecu godine je izgubio br1. protiv rafe je slicno tako prosuo veliko vodstvo pred kraj godine. mislim da je i poucen time prosle godine isao po 2 meca i osiguranje br1 na kraju prosle sezone. nadam se da ce, ukoliko dodje do slicne situacije i sada i br1 mu bude u opasnosti, tako razmisljati i ove godine. isto se nadam da ce se i poeni i turniri malo rasiriti i rasporediti po ovim next genovcima a da nece medo ili cici pocistiti kraj sezone jer jedino oni u nekom takvom scenariju imaju sansu da zavrse kao br1 ovu sezonu.

edit.
naravnoda su OI bitne ali ne mogu se ni porediti sa slemovima u tenisu. pa nole je bio na 50% da li ce igrati. zna se sta su slemovi. i koliko god da ih moze skupiti ili koliko god ih vec imao, uvjek ce jos 1 biti bitniji od OI.
Zadnja izmjena: lucky13, dana/u 18 avg 2021, 16:13, ukupno mijenjano 1 put.

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Felixians4
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Re: Oktagon velike trojke ili put do GOATa

Post Postao/la Felixians4 » 18 avg 2021, 16:04

lucky13 je napisao/la:
18 avg 2021, 15:44
nadam se da ce ici na YE#1 u svakom slucaju. veoma znacajno dostignuce. bio bi usmljen na vrhu po sampionskim sezonama i imao cak 2 vise od fedala. vec je 2 puta propustao YE#1 u foto finisu zbog ne igranja i odmaranja na nekim turnirima. dok bi sa druge strane muza i rafa pocistili kraj godine. oba puta u 750p razlike. muza spasavao ML protiv milosa u SF WTFa i poslije je direktno finale sa noletom odlucivalo o br1 na kraju godine. znaci bukvalno u posljednjem mecu godine je izgubio br1. protiv rafe je slicno tako prosuo veliko vodstvo pred kraj godine. mislim da je i poucen time prosle godine isao po 2 meca i osiguranje br1 na kraju prosle sezone. nadam se da ce, ukoliko dodje do slicne situacije i sada i br1 mu bude u opasnosti, tako razmisljati i ove godine. isto se nadam da ce se i poeni i turniri malo rasiriti i rasporediti po ovim next genovcima a da nece medo ili cici pocistiti kraj sezone jer jedino oni u nekom takvom scenariju imaju sansu da zavrse kao br1 ovu sezonu.
Da, bilo bi dobro da bude tako. Ukoliko i bude potrebe,jel. Nadam se da će Medo i/ili Tsitsi kiksnuti u Cincinattiju ranije. Thiem otkazao US Open, mislim da i Nadal ide ka tome...

P.S. Nadal je na današnji datum prije 13 godina prvi put preuzeo broj 1

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Re: Oktagon velike trojke ili put do GOATa

Post Postao/la lucky13 » 18 avg 2021, 16:17

nole je znao nakon najvecih uspjeha da strasno padne (kao nakon vezivanja sve 4 slem titule) a nakon nekih najvecih udaraca da se nenormalno podigne (kao nakon diskvalifikacije na USO uz tezak poraz od rafe u finalu sljedeceg slema). tako da je tesko reci kako sta djeluje na njega. jedno je sigurno. pritisak je nevjerovatan. ne samo da je u pitanju sezonski GS nego i rekord u slem titulama pa i osiguranje YE#1 i to rekordni 7. put. 3 GOAT ostvarenja odjednom!

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Felixians4
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Re: Oktagon velike trojke ili put do GOATa

Post Postao/la Felixians4 » 18 avg 2021, 16:27

lucky13 je napisao/la:
18 avg 2021, 16:17
nole je znao nakon najvecih uspjeha da strasno padne (kao nakon vezivanja sve 4 slem titule) a nakon nekih najvecih udaraca da se nenormalno podigne (kao nakon diskvalifikacije na USO uz tezak poraz od rafe u finalu sljedeceg slema). tako da je tesko reci kako sta djeluje na njega. jedno je sigurno. pritisak je nevjerovatan. ne samo da je u pitanju sezonski GS nego i rekord u slem titulama pa i osiguranje YE#1.
Istina,nekoliko duljih postova sam tome posvetio nakon Zvereva u Tokiu. Ono što vidim i čitam ohrabruje,pa čak i u slučaju neuspjeha u NY,mislim da je uspio postići mir i svjestan je da to sada nije još uvijek završni sprint nego ima još uspona. Pomaže i što su poravnati,a Fed i Rafa ozlijeđeni i to što upravo ima fine šanse ostati 1. i po ulasku u 2022.

Pritisak jest nevjerojatan, no u praksi mislim da nije toliki, čak na OI djelovalo je to ko odrađivanje što zaista suludo zvuči. Vjerojatno mu je to obrambeni mehanizam koji štiti od nove krize kakvu je psihofizički doživio nakon 2016.

Njegov team vjerujem da logično razmišlja i da je glavni plan da Đoker bude što sačuvaniji jer vide da Federer naravno posebno,a i Nadal lošije podnose matore dane dok Novak je bio i jest na pragu tog nevjerojatnog ostvarenja u 35.godini.


NA US Openu jasno i uvjeti - brzina terena,vlaga pa i organizacija oko karantena,publike i sl. će biti jako bitne stavke kao i ždrijeb itd.

Novak je lani u Beču "propustio" match(bilo bi bolje da je predao) Sonegu,Pariz je propustio. Siguran sam da će tu popraviti bodovni saldo pred Finals na kojem je neuvjerljiv upravo od 2015. ima tek 2 finala bez titule.

Kompletirati 4 Slama bilo bi fenomenalno, no ipak bazični ciljevi su itekako (sem tog Olimp Zlata naravski) ostvareni pa i premašeni ove godine, treba biti i pragmatičan i ne tražiti kruha preko pogače vazda. Težiti najboljem ,to šampioni svi moraju uvijek ,no ipak ne pod svaku cijenu.

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Re: Oktagon velike trojke ili put do GOATa

Post Postao/la lucky13 » 18 avg 2021, 17:05

Felixians4 je napisao/la:
18 avg 2021, 16:04

P.S. Nadal je na današnji datum prije 13 godina prvi put preuzeo broj 1
jos jedna zanimljivost ove sedmice je da je nole sa njom presao feda za onoliko sedmica za koliko je ovaj presao pita. i to uz 22 ukradene sedmice.


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Re: Oktagon velike trojke ili put do GOATa

Post Postao/la lucky13 » 20 avg 2021, 18:28

sada je potpuno jasno da ce nole 2021 godinu zavrsiti kao neosporni GOAT! ja prvi, a mislim ni najgori optimisti, pred sezonu nisam mogao ni pomisliti da bi to moglo tako biti. sada jedino ostaje da se vidi sa kolikom marginalom ce to biti. ostaju jos 2 velike stvari, USO i YE#1. i par manje bitnih, WTF i rekord u mastersima.

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Re: Oktagon velike trojke ili put do GOATa

Post Postao/la lucky13 » 21 avg 2021, 17:21

znam da ova lista nije bas najlogicnija jer uzima u obzir sve zivo. i razna cetvrtfinala i top10 rejtinge i svaki odigrani mec. tako da oni sa duzom karijerom se nakupe poena iako mozda pored kvantiteta nemaju odredjeni kvalitet na najvisem nivou i najjacim turnirima. ali ko voli moze da bira i kroji listekako hoce. baza podataka je enormna. imaju i precice za vec odabrane liste (plavo dugme sa brzim odabirima). i po svakoj je nole br1 iliti GOAT.

opsta lista:
https://www.ultimatetennisstatistics.com/goatList

1 SRB Novak Djokovic Active 942
2 SUI Roger Federer Active 935
3 ESP Rafael Nadal Active 849
4 USA Jimmy Connors 614
5 USA Ivan Lendl 607
6 USA Pete Sampras 523
7 USA John McEnroe 514
8 SWE Bjorn Borg 483
9 USA Andre Agassi 417
10 AUS Rod Laver 390

fokus na slemovima, velikim titulama i br1:
https://www.ultimatetennisstatistics.co ... dsFactor=2

1 SRB Novak Djokovic Active 3926
2 SUI Roger Federer Active 3798
3 ESP Rafael Nadal Active 3462
4 USA Pete Sampras 2202
5 USA Ivan Lendl 2172
6 USA Jimmy Connors 2145
7 SWE Bjorn Borg 1832
8 USA John McEnroe 1796
9 USA Andre Agassi 1618
10 AUS Rod Laver 1464

minimalisticka (najvaznije stvari):
https://www.ultimatetennisstatistics.co ... csFactor=0

1 SRB Novak Djokovic Active 235
2 SUI Roger Federer Active 223
3 ESP Rafael Nadal Active 210
4 USA Pete Sampras 152
5 SWE Bjorn Borg 111
6 USA Ivan Lendl 97
7 USA Jimmy Connors 96
8 USA Andre Agassi 86
9 AUS Rod Laver 83
10 USA John McEnroe 78

najjaci pik:
https://www.ultimatetennisstatistics.co ... onFactor=4

1 SRB Novak Djokovic Active 1104
2 SUI Roger Federer Active 1022
3 ESP Rafael Nadal Active 939
4 USA Ivan Lendl 667
5 USA Jimmy Connors 656
6 SWE Bjorn Borg 636
7 USA John McEnroe 616
8 USA Pete Sampras 556
9 AUS Rod Laver 453
10 USA Andre Agassi 441

minimalisticki najjaci pik:
https://www.ultimatetennisstatistics.co ... csFactor=0

1 SRB Novak Djokovic Active 54
2 SWE Bjorn Borg 51
3 USA John McEnroe 34
4 ESP Rafael Nadal Active 30
5 SUI Roger Federer Active 29
6 AUS Rod Laver 21
7 USA Ivan Lendl 20
8 USA Jimmy Connors 14
9 USA Pete Sampras 11
10 GER Boris Becker 10

korigovano po tezini era:
https://www.ultimatetennisstatistics.co ... nsFactor=4

1 SRB Novak Djokovic Active 1114
2 SUI Roger Federer Active 1073
3 ESP Rafael Nadal Active 988
4 USA Ivan Lendl 700
5 USA Jimmy Connors 692
6 USA John McEnroe 610
7 USA Pete Sampras 589
7 SWE Bjorn Borg 589
9 USA Andre Agassi 462
10 AUS Rod Laver 449


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Dimitrov
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Re: Oktagon velike trojke ili put do GOATa

Post Postao/la Dimitrov » 22 avg 2021, 21:29

Fed > Djo
Nad > Djo

lucky13
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Re: Oktagon velike trojke ili put do GOATa

Post Postao/la lucky13 » 23 avg 2021, 23:43

odlican clanak

Novak Djokovic is the GOAT, with or without an Olympic gold medal


This past weekend, Novak Djokovic had to face his first bit of failure of 2021. The 20-time Major winner fell short in his quest to win an Olympic gold medal for his country, losing in the singles semifinals to Alexander Zverev.

Adding salt to his wounds, Djokovic failed to bag a bronze medal either, as he succumbed to Spain's Pablo Carreno Busta in the playoff. The Serb also lost in his mixed doubles semifinals alongside partner Nina Stojanovic, before withdrawing from their bronze medal match due to a right shoulder injury and fatigue.

After winning pretty much everything in sight for two months, Djokovic ended his 2021 Olympic campaign without a medal. It was a brutal 24 hours for the best tennis player in the world, to say the least.

But what followed on social media after Novak Djokovic's losses was even more disturbing - not just for fans of the man, but for any lover of tennis. In what seems like the millionth such instance, too many people are angry with Djokovic for absolutely no fault of his.

Those who have closely followed Djokovic's career would know that he has always been the subject of irrational negativity. The World No. 1 is even hated for being too 'perfect' a player.

Much of the vitriol spewed against Novak Djokovic is beyond any argument or reason. But what can be argued against is the notion that failing to win an Olympic gold medal somehow carves a dent in Djokovic's claim to being the greatest tennis player of all time or 'GOAT'.

Sure, the Olympic gold could well remain an unwritten page in Novak Djokovic's biography by the time he calls it quits. But literally every legendary athlete has that one achievement in their career that they are forced to hang up their boots without.

The crux of the matter is whether that one unlocked achievement is big enough to sway the biggest debate.

Does the Olympic gold really matter in the GOAT race?Novak Djokovic
Novak Djokovic's only Olympic medal is a bronze, which came at the Beijing 2008 Games
The Olympic Games are the pinnacle of world sport. It goes without saying that any kid who dreams of excelling at sport also dreams of excelling at the Olympics.

But does anyone really think of tennis when they think of the Olympics? Conversely, does anyone think of the Olympics when they think of tennis?

I don't mean to undermine the prestige of the Olympics; they are and always will be the peak manifestation of sporting greatness. But there are certain sports that are seen as inherently 'Olympian', where success at the Games is paramount to the athlete's legacy.

The likes of athletics, swimming and gymnastics can't do without the Olympics, because all their participants consider a gold medal to be the ultimate achievement in their sport.

But tennis is definitely not among those sports.

For instance, Usain Bolt wouldn't have been THE Usain Bolt without his astonishing Olympic records. And Michael Phelps wouldn't have been the point of reference in American sport without his legendary Olympic feats. But Roger Federer is still the majestic Roger Federer, even without a singles Olympic gold to his name. And Pete Sampras was considered the greatest tennis player of all time for a good 10 years despite never having won a medal of any color.

By the same token, Novak Djokovic's status as the greatest tennis player of all time should remain intact even if he never gets an Olympic gold medal. That's simply because the rest of his achievements are too colossal to be outweighed by 500 grams of gold.

During their formative years, a tennis player's first dream is to win one of the four Majors. And if that player does go on to win one of them, their immediate next goal is to win the remaining three Majors - and thus be immortalized in the history books as one of the handful of players to have completed the prestigious 'Career Slam'.

Of course, a few tennis players do dream of winning the Olympic gold medal. But that dream is limited to only a small part of their career (once every four years), and is fueled primarily by the patriotic desire to win an honor for their country. An individual sport like tennis doesn't provide that opportunity round the calendar, so Olympic success is seen as a refreshing change of pace.

But to say that a player desires an Olympic gold medal as much as, say, Wimbledon or Roland Garros, would be overstating the importance of the Games for a sport like tennis.

That's not to say Novak Djokovic doesn't want to win an Olympic gold medal. Djokovic would probably lay his life down on the court to win one at the Paris 2024 Games. I would even go as far as saying that he would be ready, in a heartbeat, to trade one of his 20 Majors for OIympic gold.

Novak Djokovic has a great and unfettered love for Serbia, which is symbolized by his desire to do well at the Games. It is Djokovic's passion for his country that drove him to Tokyo, despite the other three members of the legendary ensemble - Serena Williams, Roger Federer and Rafael Nadal - all withdrawing over a variety of valid concerns.

An Olympic gold medal will, of course, make Djokovic's stellar CV even more impressive. It will make his career as complete as an athlete's career has ever been, in any sport. It might even give him a greater sense of relief than any of his 20 Grand Slam wins did.

But at the end of the day, Novak Djokovic's current stockpile of gigantic achievements already stands out enough to make him the indisputable 'GOAT' in men's tennis.

Novak Djokovic is the most accomplished male tennis player of all time, even without an Olympic gold
Novak Djokovic has won everything there is to win on the regular tennis calendar. And he's won all of it at least TWICE each.

With his historic win at this year's French Open - beating a certain Rafael Nadal en route - the man from Belgrade became the only male player in the Open era to win the 'Double Career Grand Slam'. He is now the only player ever to win every Major, every ATP Masters and the ATP Year Ending Championships (or the ATP Finals) at least twice each.


Novak Djokovic's French Open triumph solidified his status as the 'GOAT'

A few weeks before that legacy-defining Roland Garros triumph, Novak Djokovic had overtaken Roger Federer's record for most weeks as World No. 1. For many years, the Swiss Maestro's 310 weeks at the top of the sport seemed like an unassailable record; one that his legacy was based around. But Djokovic's unbreakable dominance enabled him to surpass the record and extend it even further.

Novak Djokovic has currently spent 332 weeks (and counting) as the ATP tour leader. And he looks set to surpass the 350 mark - or even Steffi Graf's all-time mark of 377 - without much trouble.

That's not the only ranking record the Serb holds. Novak Djokovic also shares (with Pete Sampras) the record for most years ended as the No. 1 player in the world, at six. Barring an unlikely Herculean effort from either Daniil Medvedev or Stefanos Tsitsipas, Djokovic looks set to dismantle Sampras and take that crown for himself come the end of 2021.

When it comes to the most important statistic in tennis - the total number of Grand Slams won - Novak Djokovic, Roger Federer and Rafael Nadal are equals on paper. The 'Big 3' currently share the all-time record in men's tennis with 20 Majors each. But if you look a little deeper into their tallies, you realize that the difficulty of Djokovic's Slam wins and his surface-wise spread are significantly superior to the other two.

Djokovic is the only one of the three to have won every Slam at least twice. And the level of opposition that the Serb has faced in his Slam triumphs is, as the ATP rankings suggest, higher in quality than both his chief rivals.

For instance: Federer has won nine of his 20 Major titles without facing any players in the top four of the then-live ATP rankings. Djokovic, however, has only one such Major triumph - his most recent one, at Wimbledon 2021.

Rafael Nadal, meanwhile, won the 2017 US Open without facing any players in the top 20 of the then ATP rankings.

When it comes to beating the best to win Slams, Novak Djokovic stands the tallest of the three. He has beaten at least one other member of the famed 'Big 4' - the three players in the discussion plus Andy Murray - en route to 17 of his 20 Slam titles. In comparison, Federer has won 13 of his 20 Majors without beating a single member of the Big 4, whereas six of Nadal's 20 triumphs have come without facing any other member of the quartet.

Taking all these nuances into consideration, Novak Djokovic's tally of 20 Majors looks more imposing in the GOAT debate than that of Roger Federer or Rafael Nadal.

Another honor that Djokovic currently shares (with Nadal) is the record for the most ATP Masters titles won, at 36. However, Nadal has failed to win three out of the nine Masters tournaments currently played on the ATP Tour - namely, the Miami Open, the Shanghai Masters and Paris Bercy. On the other hand, Djokovic has won all of the nine Masters - and won them at least twice each.

The Spaniard has also never won the year-ending championships, a tournament held every year as opposed to the Olympics. Many would argue that the lack of the year-ender undermines Nadal's GOAT claim much more than the lack of an Olympic gold does Djokovic's.

The Serb has collected 61 of his 85 career titles from the four Grand Slams, nine Masters and the ATP Finals - an assortment of tournaments that the ATP calls the 'big' or 'elite' tournaments. That is another record where he trumps both of his biggest rivals; Federer has won 54 'big' tournaments while Nadal has won 57.

Novak Djokovic is currently 34 years old. Although only a year younger than Nadal, Djokovic has shown no signs of burnout the way the Spaniard has shown this year. Instead, the Serb is on course to complete the greatest season ever recorded in men's tennis; the unprecedented 'Calendar Slam' is still in his sights.

It is possible that by the time he calls it a career, Novak Djokovic will own every single record in the history books, whether vital or trivial. But even if he doesn't, he already holds all the important records, either alone or shared.

The Double Career Grand Slam and the Double Golden Masters (winning all nine Masters at least twice each) make Djokovic more accomplished than the other two. The record for most weeks at No. 1 also makes him the most dominant player of all time; his prime has lasted more than a decade now.

If he wins the US Open in a month, Novak Djokovic will simultaneously hold all four Slams for the second time in his career. He will also become the first player since Steffi Graf and second man in the Open Era to win the Calendar Slam.

The lack of an Olympic gold medal does leave a tiny dent in Novak Djokovic's CV. But that dent is insignificant in comparison to the weight that his achievements hold over those of his two biggest rivals.

Novak Djokovic is the greatest male tennis player to have ever lived, despite never winning an Olympic gold medal. That's a statistically-backed fact whether you like it or not.

Edited by Musab Abid

https://www.sportskeeda.com/tennis/even ... l-the-goat

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Re: Oktagon velike trojke ili put do GOATa

Post Postao/la Felixians4 » 24 avg 2021, 00:05

Samo sam naslov, pročitao,slažem se da bi bio GOAT da sada završe, čisto po teniskim dostignućima i statsima,naravno. Al ti ko da se Novak samo bori za GOAT sebično(što bi isto bilo legit),a da mu ništa drugo nije bitno.

Hoću reći,namjerno nipodaštavaš OI bez potrebe. Neće on ne biti GOAT ukoliko tu ne u Parizu ne načini tad već iznenađenje i okruni se i time. Nema Federer,nema Nadal dosta rekorda koje Nole ima. Sampras je bio unisoni GOAT ranije. Tko spominje Nicolas Massua? Ali itekako su vrijedne OI.

S druge strane imamo forumaša koji ga je "prekrižio" jer je tobože bio neozbiljan u Olimpijskom Selu i ljut je što nije donio medalje. Upravo to je najbolji primjer koliko je i nezgodno Đokoviću zadovoljiti vlastiti narod, a kamoli ostale.

lucky13
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Re: Oktagon velike trojke ili put do GOATa

Post Postao/la lucky13 » 24 avg 2021, 10:45

po cemu si ti zakljucio da ja nipodastavam OI? clanak je upravo postavljen zbog suprotnog, jer se precjenjuju (a samo iz razloga jer ih nole nije osvojio) i kao odgovor raznim kriticarima kako nole ne moze biti GOAT bez istih. sto rodji i samprasu recimo nije smetalo za svojedobnu titulu istog. OI objektivno nisu na nivou slemova u tenisu tako da u jednom olimpijskom ciklusu imas barem 16 vaznijih turnira od te olimpijade. ATP im je davao 750 poena i time ih vrjednovao nize od slemova, WTFa i mastersa. znaci 15 turnir po vrijednosti (i 65. po vrijednsti u olimpijskom 4rogodisnjem ciklusu). citao sam da sada nisu donosile poene jer se ATP i ITF nisu mogli dogovoriti o vrjednovanju a bilo je govora da se digne na 1000p sto bi opet bilo ispod 4 slema i WTFa a u ravni sa 9 masters turnira. ja sam ih uvjek stavljao u ravan sa WTFom. znaci objektivno ispod slemova ali jace od mastersa.

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Felixians4
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Re: Oktagon velike trojke ili put do GOATa

Post Postao/la Felixians4 » 24 avg 2021, 11:38

lucky13 je napisao/la:
24 avg 2021, 10:45
po cemu si ti zakljucio da ja nipodastavam OI? clanak je upravo postavljen zbog suprotnog, jer se precjenjuju (a samo iz razloga jer ih nole nije osvojio) i kao odgovor raznim kriticarima kako nole ne moze biti GOAT bez istih. sto rodji i samprasu recimo nije smetalo za svojedobnu titulu istog. OI objektivno nisu na nivou slemova u tenisu tako da u jednom olimpijskom ciklusu imas barem 16 vaznijih turnira od te olimpijade. ATP im je davao 750 poena i time ih vrjednovao nize od slemova, WTFa i mastersa. znaci 15 turnir po vrijednosti (i 65. po vrijednsti u olimpijskom 4rogodisnjem ciklusu). citao sam da sada nisu donosile poene jer se ATP i ITF nisu mogli dogovoriti o vrjednovanju a bilo je govora da se digne na 1000p sto bi opet bilo ispod 4 slema i WTFa a u ravni sa 9 masters turnira. ja sam ih uvjek stavljao u ravan sa WTFom. znaci objektivno ispod slemova ali jace od mastersa.
Pa ne mislim da se precjenjuju. Ali i samim tim što je konkurencija bila oslabljena,a Novak tako suveren,doživljen je veliki kiks,pogotovo što je imao sigurno vodstvo u polufinalu te protivnika na pladnju u finalu za poželjeti.

Upravo to što su ATP i ITF u ne bajnim odnosima je razlog tih bodova,odnosno sad nedostatka istih pa se igraju turniri koji su uzeli gro igrača iz top100 koji su mogli nastupati na OI.

Tu se slažem s boldanim iako opet, WTF je jednom godišnje, OI u 4 godine i stalno drugi grad/podloga,a poseban je naboj. Teško je uspoređivati,no ono što je sigurno, Đokovića izrazito boli taj neprestani neuspjeh na istima i sigurno da je to igračima jako značajno, definitivno ispred ATP1000 turnira kolikogod možda njih bilo teže osvojiti.

I da mi ne spočitavaš - Da, Nadalovih 0 ATP Finalsa je "gore" od Novaovih 0 zlata.

lucky13
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Re: Oktagon velike trojke ili put do GOATa

Post Postao/la lucky13 » 24 avg 2021, 12:01

pa i slemova imas 16 (a samo 4 WTFa) u 4 godine a samo jednu olimpijadu pa su opet slemovi daleko znacajniji. to sto su svake 4 godine im ne pojacava vrijednost. rafin je neuspjeh time veci sto je imao 4 puta vise sansi na WTFu nego nole na OI. WTF je daleko tezi za osvojiti. ali opet, meni, a vjerujem i vecini tenisera, OI imaju veci znacaj od mastersa i priblizan sa WTFom zbog njihove specificnosti. OI su "teske" najvise jer su rijetke. WTF i sam ima svoju specificnost. najjaci dvoranski turnir, najboljih 8 sezone, jedini turnir sa grupama itd...

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BosniaBoston
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Re: Oktagon velike trojke ili put do GOATa

Post Postao/la BosniaBoston » 24 avg 2021, 12:10

lucky13 je napisao/la:
24 avg 2021, 12:01
pa i slemova imas 16 (a samo 4 WTFa) u 4 godine a samo jednu olimpijadu pa su opet slemovi daleko znacajniji. to sto su svake 4 godine im ne pojacava vrijednost. rafin je neuspjeh time veci sto je imao 4 puta vise sansi na WTFu nego nole na OI. WTF je daleko tezi za osvojiti. ali opet, meni, a vjerujem i vecini tenisera, OI imaju veci znacaj od mastersa i priblizan sa WTFom zbog njihove specificnosti. OI su "teske" najvise jer su rijetke. WTF i sam ima svoju specificnost. najjaci dvoranski turnir, najboljih 8 sezone, jedini turnir sa grupama itd...
Nole je imao 4 prilike da uzme OI od toga 3 na omiljenoj podlozi i jednom na terenima turnira kojeg je osvojio 6 puta pa nikad nije dosao ni do finala. Rafa je imao 10 prilika da uzme wtf u za sebe najgorim mogucim uslovima pa je ipak dosao do 2 finala odnosno “srebra”

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